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Talk:Necromancer Norn armor/Archive
Read at your own risk :Where is everyone getting this idea that tight = emo? You know a lot of people wore tight pants in the 80's, and a lot of emo kids don't wear tight pants at all. Also, it's not a reskin, no Norn armor is, a lot of people assume this is a reskin.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 22:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC) ::How can you not see that this is a reskin? O_o Canthan Legs, Necrotic Chest (added mouth-piece to Female also, not just male), Canthan Gloves, Luxon Boots. And you say this is not a reskin? RoseOfKali 19:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC) :::Look closer, plz. It's not a reskin. None of the Norn armors are reskins. Skirt: Canthan has spikes, is square, and higher cut(Higher cut ensures it's not a reskin, you can't expand the model while keeping it a reskin) Chest: I shouldn't even have to point out the differences, Necrotic is an entirely different model. Gloves: Again, obvious. Spikes are in totally different places, and wtf are you expecting with gloves? They are only so many shapes they can do, there're bound to be some similar ones. Boots: Again, entirely different, how can you make a mistake like that? For an armor collector, you sure don't seem to know the models too well. No offense, but they're just too different. And all that was on the female, won't even get into the male, those ones are even moreso different from previous armors.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 18:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC) ::::Um, actually, it's still MUCH easier to lightly modify a model and reposition some spikes here and there, change a leather trim to a fur one on the ankles, extend the length a bit, etc., than make a completely new model from scratch. It is OBVIOUS that they made all the models completely from scratch for the Nightfall armor and most of Factions. Not so much here. Open your eyes and maybe you'll see what happened. RoseOfKali 23:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC) :::::If the model is changed in any way, it's not a reskin, and the chest and feet are just way too far to be slightly modified. A lot of Proph and Factions armors are reskins, blatant reskins, so wtf is the problem? And how you can you expect newly shaped everything every time they come out with a new armor? Did you think possibly the artist who created the Norn liked the way the Canthan skirt looked, and thus made it similar?--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 00:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::Please name the 'blatant reskins' from Prophecies, and then tell me that Necromancer Asuran armor is not a reskin, or Elementalist Asuran armor is not a reskin. It's not that the artist "liked" some piece of armor and made one that's similar, it's more like he/she ran out of ideas and tried to mix old stuff to see what sort of goes together and make it look different enough to call it "new." Half of the EotN armors, are blatant rip-offs from previous sets, which created a rage in the GW community when the first screenshots came out. What do you think that was all about? Get over it and stop defending them. RoseOfKali 17:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::Where did i say Asuran armor wasn't a reskin? All EotN armor sets are reskins except for the norn sets, that's all i'm saying. The blatant reskins would be: Fanatic/Elite Cultist, Scar/Elite Scar(Duh), Fur Lined/Elite Fur Lined, Studded Leather/Elite Studded Leather, Charr Hide/Elite Charr Hide, Platemail/Elite Platemail, Woven/Elite Woven, Censor/Elite Judge, Noble/Elite Noble, Rogue/Elite Rogue, Every Elite Elementalist armor from Proph is also a reskin. Go bitch about those, at least you'd be correct there.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 19:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::OMG THIS ARMOR IS SOOOOOO F*ING RESKINNED IT MAKES ME WANT TO SPLURGE OUT OBSCENE WORDS***RESKIN RESKIN RESKIN RESKIN RESKIN RESKIN RESKIN RESKIN*** Gerroh you are so damn wrong its succhhhhhhh a RESKIN... And to top off this gay/Useless comment i shall add a sig that pwns all the rest... --[[User:Schlumpy|'Schlumpy']] Elementalist Iceforged armor vs. Elementalist Elite Iceforged armor... Necromancer Canthan armor vs. Necromancer Elite Canthan armor... See a pattern by chance? They were MEANT to look the same, for crying out loud!!! You just pay more money for the "fancy" one. Now have the Asurans ever heard of Luxons? Or have the Norns ever heard of Canthans? F***ING NO! I agree that the other Norn armors are not reskins, but this one IS. (I also think the Mesmer Norn armor is one of the most unoriginal armor sets ever made O_o) Look at the cuffs on the boots, the palm and armguards or the gloves, the shoulder guards, the mouthpiece on the male versions (female just got mirrored in Norn, unlike the other one), the F***ING SKIRT! OMG HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE IT? O_O *Picks eye out with a fork and brings closer to the monitor* Put the damn images next to each other, if that helps at all, maybe, hopefully... The only "original" necromancer piece of armor they made in this expansion were the female Monument boots, THAT'S IT! RoseOfKali 05:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC) : Dear Kali, I dont believe that forking out Gerroh's eyeball would be the best idea, but it would be mildly entertaining... and umm Gerroh, Follow this http://www.Gerroh.Justgotowned.com --[[User:Schlumpy|'Schlumpy']] ::So uhh... what's going on here? Who is Gerroh? 05:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC) :::Gerroh is Darksyde Never Again Cool your jets Kali. I made a Picture for you, if it doesn't convince you, your soul will rot in artistic hell. =(--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 02:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :O.O GW:NPA? :O lol. Something random . ::Also this has to be a conversation that has lasted a while :D. --Helllbringer 02:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::Based on DNA's part-by-part comparison, I'd have to say it's not a reskin, but it's not very original either. 02:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::Pfft, NPA ain't go nothin on me. I'm not making any personal attacks. And even if i did, i could talk you all into believing that it's not a personal attack =P--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 02:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::I'd also like to add that they must keep a theme with the armors, and once you have reached the 20 or so sets point, it gets a bit hard to come up with new sub-themes to that theme--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 02:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Thank you for making that image to show just how much alike they look. You are picking on a technical term "reskin" which in this case simply meant they were, like you put, "heavily inspired" by the other pieces. It does not matter if they took the actual digital model and simply changed the colors/textures (Necromancer Elite Luxon armor>>Necromancer Asuran armor), or if they went as far as stretching/reshaping/repositioning some things. Still, somehow they came up with a completely new design for Ranger Norn armor, Elementalist Norn armor, or Ritualist Norn armor, and miserably failed to do so for the necromancer one. End of story. RoseOfKali 03:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Not end of story, like i said, when you have to follow a theme, there are only so many sub-themes for armor that you can have. Can you really expect them to come up with something else Necro-like that doesn't look at least someone like the other armors? And a lot of the other Norn armors ARE similar. Ranger is similar to druidic in some ways, Warrior is similar to Charr hide, Assassin is similar to Monument, Etc. It's not a reskin, admit you were wrong at the very least. Also above you asked for blatant reskins from Proph, i gave them to you, then you complained when i did so.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 04:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Dude, I still disagree with you, and it's not going to change. Nobody said they had to follow a "theme" for the armor. They didn't in NF, did they? Most of them looked NOTHING like anything they made before. No previous "inspirations" there, other than mild influences between other NF armors. Same thing for Factions. And you still don't seem to agree that standard->elite of the same name were MEANT to be a fancy reskin of the same thing. It's CALLED the same thing! Why should it be different? O_o RoseOfKali 17:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC) : ORLY SAME THING?. The point is you asked, i delivered. And Necro armors in Nightfall were still quite necrotic, just not your standard "evil and bones" stuff(Actually some of it still wasy.) The chest on this is totally different, the gloves and boots are quite different, and the skirt is only similar, but not exact.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 18:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::You delivered the only exception? That's hardly worthy of an argument, and it is even noted on that page that "However, unlike other elite armor art for Prophecies Campaign, it does not use the same model as the non-elite version, and instead uses roughly the same model as the Elementalist Krytan armor art." Apparently, people recognize that it's an exception. Nobody said the pieces mentioned on the Necro Norn armor page are the same, but some elements are pretty damn close. RoseOfKali 19:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::You still asked for "blatant reskins" with no exceptions, i delivered them. Can you just admit in plain writing that you were wrong about this being a reskin? ::::And, Sorry kali,But Using Nightfall armor as an example for completely different armor is not a very good arguement,beings as its a totally different land then Tyria or Cantha.... EotN Takes place in a land that is located above tyria, and can be accessed by a portal from either Cantha and Elona... So what is wrong about saying that Norn Armor was inspired by the other armors and that their not just Reskins??? I believe that was the concept of EotN, To keep it simple.... Beings dwarvens lived in northern shiverpeaks, Asurans live un northern kryta, and the ebon vanguard were that of the remaining ascalonians, Using armor as reskins would be no problem for them, beings they come from the same land, But the norns come from norn territory, a land surrounded by all of the dwarves, asuran, and ebon vanguard... Dont you think they would be inspired by their suurroundings, it is plain to see that this armor is no simple reskin, but just an armor made, that of an inspiration... and is totally different from any of the other armors... --Schlumpy 20:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Except they were inspired by armor from Cantha, not Tyria... RoseOfKali 20:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::And I already explained my usage of the word "reskin" here. There's a reason I didn't use it in the armor's description. In the context of the fact that so many EotN armors actually were 100% reskins, what makes you think they took one and just made it "heavily resemble" something else, without playing with its model? This conversation is pointless. RoseOfKali 20:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::Read what Plague said, silly. There are portals going from all over the world, including Cantha. In fact, one of the first cities you get to when you visit Far Northern Shiverpeaks is Gunnar's Hold, where the Norn armor crafter is. All we want you to do is take a deep breath and admit you were wrong.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 21:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::I'm with Kali--Bastthegatekeeper 23:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::::On what? You beleive this armor is a reskin despite much proof practically being crammed down the throat of anyone who sees this page?--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 00:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::Lol, you have proven nothing, merely that you agree that they ARE similar. Half the time you are almost arguing against yourself, and if i had time and no life then I would spend the next half hour poking holes in your argument. However, regrettably, guild event, sorry. I guess i will have to leave you to suffer under your delusions of correctness...--Bastthegatekeeper 00:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::::::What exactly is the argument here? Whether or not it's a reskin, or what the definition of reskin is? 00:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::::Whether or not it's a reskin, and i guess he's too "leet" to look at This. Blatant Ignorance ftl.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 01:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::::::::Well clearly it isn't by your and my definition, but it is by Kali's et al. Is it so hard to accept that? 01:40, 28 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::::::By definition, a "reskin" is when they take an old, previously used model, and apply a new skin or texture to it. I've worked with such things in the computer classes at my school(I was an exceptional student in that class). Not on the same level as Anet, but the basics are the same. If even one part of the model is changed, it's not a reskin. The parts are this are really quite different from all other necromancer parts, except for the leggings, which are similar to Canthan, but as i proved earlier, not a reskin.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 01:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC) So, you think that your little picture collage is "proof" that it's not a reskin? Let's take a look at the pictures again, shall we? So the top shoulder guard was plastered on top of the Necrotic one, or would you like to dispute that? Did you take a good look, now? You can define the word "reskin" all you want, but the changes made to the original models were less than trivial. So they copy-pasted the old model and played with it some... Oooh... That means it's not a reskin, OMG OMG!!! I believe I'm hearing a shattering noise of some kind somewhere... Because really, if all these are "coincidences" and the artist just "looked" at the old ones for "inspiration" then he/she should have bought about a dozen and a half lottery tickets the day those were conceived, or he/she should be making a lot more money than Anet can afford to pay them for having such a "perfect" eye. RoseOfKali 18:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :This so deserves it.... PRWND! --Gimmethegepgun 19:07, 28 May 2008 (UTC) ::On another note, I would like to see the credentials of that "computer class" instructor who made him an "exceptional student"... And the class average... (I love that bumper sticker that says "My son placed third in the Special Olympics!") RoseOfKali 19:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :::That's going a bit too far. There's no need to bring insults into this argument. It's differing views, not an alley fight. 19:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC) ::::Oh, my apologies to the instructor, didn't mean to get personal there... I'm gonna go rot in my "artistic hell" now... RoseOfKali 19:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Ok well, Canada's education standards are higher than America's, so you lose there. And by your logic, zomg...MOST RANGER ARMOR IS RESKINZZZ!!!! This is why you should stop talking and learn to admit when you're wrong.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 22:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Also, in your final statement about the boots: The bottom of it is exactly the same 'cause its a skin applied to the character's model, which is what most armor is. The fang is not the same in all three armors, It's a different angle, different length, and different anchor point. Skirt i won't bother arguing, it's similar yes, but it's still not a reskin. Canthan end of glove is exactly the same 'cause that's what gloves look like /fuckingduh. Spikes are totally different, but you clearly cannot see that. AS for the male top: The shoulders are pauldrons, which are common in fantasy games, lots of necro armors have the mouth guard, and just 'cause the SKIN(Not even the model) has two angles in common, doesn't mean it's related.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 22:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::Apparently, People have lost the concept of a freeking rezkin, and nowwww its turned into a "My photoshop ownz ur photoshop, bitch,"... But its not, kali all you did was Support DNA's Arguement, In which a Reskin is not considered a reskin if pieces of the model are contorted or moved around, which you clearly illustrated in ur lovely montage of green and RED lines, Beings that you did AMAZING on the photoshop i cant critique that, but i can say the red lines stand for parts that they have moved or added,(A reskin is when an armor has been taken and put new texture or glimmer to it, but once it has been added onto, it is not considered a reskin, Just "Heavily Inspired") which was DNA's Side of the arguement, And i must say there are a decent amount of red lines, and all you did was support his arguement. --Schlumpy 22:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::So basically DNA's entire argument is fucking semantics. WHO THE FUCK CARES? IT IS THE SAME EXACT THING WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT! --Gimmethegepgun 02:08, 29 May 2008 (UTC) LoL, look at the pics, the armors aren't the same.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 02:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :I'd have to agree with DNA. Those pics posted by rose show more differences than similarities. Reskin is one thing, but if they're adding additional plates of armor, or moving the locations of spikes, they are no longer reskins. I wouldn't even call most of these similar, aside from the fact that they're black and mostly ugly. -Auron 02:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC) ::Still doesn't change the fact that they had to use the old models to make the new ones. And the new description is basically the same as saying "resemble" or whatever, but I guess it uses "milder" semantics, I was actually gonna make some similar changes to get DNA off my back. "LoL, look at the pics, the armors aren't the same." --- who ever said they were? "Reskin is one thing, but if they're adding additional plates of armor..." --- that's what they did in quite a few of Factions Standard/Elite armors anyway (that's 5*2+3*6=28 total pairs, and I showed it in the simple case of Luxon boots), and nobody argued that they were not reskins, because they were, just not quite as exact as most Prophecies pairs. Again, the only argument here is semantics (on boy, they changed <6% of the model! OMFG! It's not the same!). All I was really trying to say is that they were MADE FROM PREVIOUS SKINS, not from a BLANK ONE, and I believe I proved it. And then someone decided to throw definitions at me. Watever... Anyway, this conversation is long overdue to end. (Also, I did not use Photoshop for anything more than save a copy of the image to preserve the JPG quality, which fails miserably in Paint, the mockery of an image editing program I used to add the lines.) I have nothing against the new description, now let it rest. I forget insults easily, let it be the case for everyone. Good night. RoseOfKali 05:11, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :::Kali, they're really different, look at the Ranger armors, they have more similarities than these do. Are those reskins too? I doubt it. Unless you can get actual word from Anet that they re-used previous models to make the Norn Necromancer armor, you have absolutely no proof.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 20:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC) ::::Well, now that you've pointed it out, I just might think that Obsidian and Elite Drakescale Ranger armors may be related. Not so much on the Sunspear example you posted. But how about we don't get into it, eh? Opinions are just that, and they will always differ, but I believe that enough people agree that there is a resemblance here to not just simply dismiss it, especially in the context of mass-pseudo-reskin-invasion called the EotN armor collection. Can we end this now? This topic is already way too long, and still pointless, and I am going to archive it to clean up this talk page once nothing more is said for a few days. RoseOfKali 20:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :::::You say "Mass reskin invasion" as though it's a bad thing. They likely had great ideas, and had to resort to the next closest model due to time contraints applied 'cause of the impatient 13 year olds that plague the game. Instead of thinking that "Drakescale and Obsidian might be related" Why not think "They had to follow a theme, so it's coincidence that it looks similar"?--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::"Theme"? You just gave me my daily lulz. Here's the problem with that: they are on the opposite side of the WORLD from Cantha, and yet they still have nearly identical craftsmanship? And where does a unifying theme suddenly appear from when Prophecies was Europe themed, Factions was Asian themed, and NF was African themed, and suddenly EotN comes out without any guiding theme at all other than it being cold in MOST of it? And no, they DON'T have to hurry up for the "impatient 13-year olds", because regardless of whether or not they took 6 months or a year to make it, they STILL would have bought it. The reason they copied all the models is because the faster they get it out, the SOONER THEY GET THEIR MONEY! What other than a giant milking of the Guild Wars cash cow is EotN? NOTHING! --Gimmethegepgun 02:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::The theme in EotN is pretty obvious, dude... Asuran have a lot of runic stuff and depictions of monsters, very similar to Mayan shit, Norn have a furry theme, animal theme. Vanguard have a Prophecies militarized theme. And did you not read any of the above? The asuran portals connect everywhere in EotN to everywhere in Cantha, Tyria, and Elona. So it's pretty easy to imagine influence spreading. As for "theme" i was referring to the profession theme, not the theme of EotN, smart guy.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 03:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Could you guys just stop already, all I'm seeing is whinge whinge whinge bicker bicker bicker and it's not really achieving anything other than getting each other riled up. Jennalee 12:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC) ^^Agreed. I am going to archive this part of the talk (which is about 97% of this whole page...) tonight, in about 12 hours from this timestamp. If you feel like letting out more steam, do it before then. Once it's archived, forget about it and move on. RoseOfKali 17:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC) :Yeah, i stopped caring awhile ago, only continued it 'cause i was bored.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'DNA']] 22:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC) ::well it kept me entertained for like 20 minutes..-- 22:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)